Lucifer As Worship Leader In Heaven

June 9, 2006


Lucifer Cast DownI have heard for a long time, in quiet whispers and uncertain comments, passing remarks, and unsupported speculations, that Lucifer (the archangel that fell and became Satan) was the music/worship leader in heaven. I had heard that somewhere, the bible referred to his harp, etc. But for the life of me in scouring my bible, I had never been able to find the reference.

In a fit of not being able to sleep, I decided to resort to Google. After sifting through more unhelpful and unsupported claims on whacko Web sites, I finally came across one whose views I didn’t agree with completely, but at least they had supporting scripture to the theory. Finally! Thus ends a several year off-and-on search for this reference.

Isaiah 14 is typically seen as prophetic and speaking to the king of Babylon, which represents satan:

verse 11: Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your harps; maggots are laid as a bed beneath you, and worms are your covers.

12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!

13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’

15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.

Ezekiel 28 is also seen as a similar passage, against the king of Tyre, who also apparently represents Satan. The reason I’d never seen this is because I don’t read the NKJV, which renders the passage like so:

Verse 12 “ You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

14 “ You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.

15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you. 16 “ By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones.

Harps, Timbrels, and Pipes. Musical instruments. Interesting, slightly trivial, though perhaps a tad unsettling for me, being a worship leader. All I know for sure is that Satan is our enemy, and he is trying to kill us, and we are to resist him.

*Painting “Cast Down” by Duncan Long.

[tags]Lucifer, worship, christianity[/tags]

  • Dave B

    I guess it makes sense that lucifer would have become a worship leader… Pride is a big sin and someone too prideful would try to become a leader for the wrong reasons….

  • Steve O

    Sadly he is the “worship leader” for many these days. Thanks Matt… I was praying that I’d be able to find the verse describing Satan’s beginning. I had thought it had something to do with vanity… I’ll have to read those in some other versions now.

  • wendy sue

    The other day flipping through radio channels, I heard an advertisement that caused me to stop surfing on 103.3 FM. It was advertising their station. Something about Satan, the music they play on the station, and burning flesh. Can you be shocked and yet not really surprised??

  • Matt

    Steve – Most scholars agree that this is indeed talking about Satan, but it’s definitely not explicit in the text. Others say that this is talking about Adam and the garden. I am not aware of anywhere in scripture that actually says Satan is a fallen angel.

    • Catherine Barrett

      Read Luke 10:18

  • DanD

    Matt, I’m not sure about that ‘most scholars’. Many recognize the fallen angel picture we have of Satan as having more of a background in John Milton’s Paradise Lost.

    But, the devil is real and active and eagerly seeking to disrupt and destroy God’s good works and name. (Other scriptures, but not necessarily Is 14 or EWz 28).

  • Prescott Johnson

    It is Christians’ obsession with Satan that invites these strange interpretations which, when Satan is removed from the discussion, become pretty clear in their meaning, and that these texts (where the ‘mystery meat’ is found) are quite harmonious with the surrounding texts. However, when you insist on interpreting one king of one nation as “satan” and then another king of another nation as “satan,” whose to say we should stop at that point. As for “most scholars,” i say “birds of a feather…” there are other scholars who won’t venture in the discussion cause they simply don’t see anything there to discuss in that regard.

    • NewCre8un

      I think knowing Satans role in Heaven is important. In a battle it is important to know everything you can about your enemy. To know the tatics he uses. Knowing that he was indeed involved in music….explains alot of the music in the world today. We know for a fact that music does affect people. It can calm, it may excite. In the bible Saul was given relief from the evil spirits only by music. God loves music. Satan uses music also. He has a copy for everything God has. This information is quit useful in my opinion in the fight against the enemy.

  • Fred Roth

    I am wondering: Is the fact that Lucifer was made of instruments and was Heaven’s worship leader REALLY that important?

    Instead of dwelling on that, let’s learn how to FIGHT our enemy with effectual prayer, worship and reverence toward a God that is GREATER than our enemy, the devil!

    1 John 4:4 (NAS) You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world!

    • Steve S.

      "I am wondering: Is the fact that Lucifer was made of instruments and was Heaven's worship leader REALLY that important?"

      Well, it kinda explains Rock 'n Roll. How many different singers allude to selling their soul to the devil ? And blues singers, too.

      Jack Black at the MTV awards actually praying to the devil on air ? Yikes.

      But Fred, you're right, it's not as important a point, and our focus should be on Christ. Yet this article has helped me to realize how music can be twisted to blaspheme God rather than glorify Him. Yes there is a spiritual war going on, and one battlefield is music.

    • Kenneth

      It actually is important, because worship is important to God! We were created to worship, and to worship God alone.

      This is how I view things: If it's written in the Bible, it MUST be important! If the Holy Spirit inspired the writers of the Bible, then everything, every word, every comma, everything that is found in all 66 books of the Bible is important.

  • U. Giramino

    Satan, in his extreme grandiosity, desired to be worshiped by all of Heaven. He wanted to be God. Long story short, this didn’t go over with God very well, and satan was booted from Heaven. Now, one of the hundreds of proofs to convict him of counterfeit, of islame for instance, is that he now has his dream come true. There are people by the millions worshipping him, actually believing that they are worshipping God Himself, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. However, it is the god of this world, the god of lies, the god of hate, the god of violence and the god of deception that they are worshipping and they don’t even know it.

    Another proof is the denial of the deity of Jesus and His death on the cross, since this is the foundation for the faith of Christians that they are saved, forgiven, healed, delivered, etc. Satan has, as bad as I hate to admit it, clearly counterfeited a cult to resemble the real thing and millions have fallen for it (pun definitely not intended).

    To counterfeit a $20 bill you must use green ink, a picture of a president, use the same size and shape paper, etc. Otherwise no store cashier would ever believe that it was a real $20 bill. For someone to take the counterfeit bill they must believe that it’s real. To counterfeit a religion, you must also use ingredients to add validity such as the use of Abraham, Moses and even Jesus Himself. However, the koran mentions Jesus as “one of God’s prophets”, but that He was replaced on the cross by someone else who simply resembled Him and a host of other lies.

    Lies are fingerprints of satan and on and on. The fact that islame’s founder, muhammad, who was a proven child molester, thief, liar, rapist, murderer, extortionist and false prophet even believed originally that he was “demon possessed” would send a message to anyone with simple common sense that this cult could not be in any way “holy” or of the true and living God of The Bible. There are hundreds more pieces of evidence that prove the god of islame is none other than the ol’ boy satan himself.

    • andrew

      were does it say that satan desired to be worshipped in heaven. im doing a thing for church and i cant find this scripture

      • Matt Heerema

        The Isaiah 14 passage cited in this post is where we get that idea.

    • Lessley

      You have meet me where I am this very moment concerning Islamic belief. I am researching this very night, this very subject as I (a christian) lost my muslim boyfriend last month to a car crash. I am now strangely "adopted" by his parents as a family member as they now defend my life and well being with their utmost might. The love and comfort they give me is flaberghasting. Something inside me says the enemy is further trying to steal my soul and sway me in a muslim direction however; I feel the love I give in return to them may someday lead them to understand my unwaivering faith in Jesus is what truly brought us together that they may turn their hearts to Him (Jesus). I know I am covered by His blood and nothing formed against me will prosper. I will continue to give and do what Jesus would do..give love. I may have fallen in love with their son, but during our relationship I truly shared and hoped he would see the truth. Jabir did say he believed in Jesus, but all I know today is God only knows our hearts and the truth.

      • Lessley

        Do not fear satan…fear our Lord Jesus Christ. BTW…satan is the fallen angel of music which is why I believe so many souls, especially our youth, are misguided through this very same medium of altered deception…may God be our guide alone in this life full of diversions/tests. May we find the Lord's mercy in the hour of any falter and may grace and eternal life abound. God Bless & THANK YOU for sharing your thoughts…even if "off" the "topic".God can be called so many names, but Jesus is the ONLY proven name for God above ALL names…May you all find His truth…Inshallah and Amen

  • Matt

    That last comment was largely off topic. Why did you post it?

  • delbert

    Ezekiel 28:13 says ….thy “tabrets” and thy “pipes” was prepared in thee in the day thou wast created. Tabrets = tambourine pipes = Groove, socket, hole, cavity, settings, technical term relating to jewellers work. Our God created him for a purpose. Lucifer is a work of “art”. Ezekiel 28:14 says he is the “anointed” Cherub. anointed comes from th greek “mimshach” and is only used one time in the bible it relates to root word “mashach” in the sense of expansion. Mashach = consecrated Anaointed is used many times from the greek “mashiyach” but only once from “mimshack” which attaches a sense of expansion to it. so we “could” say Lucifer was created and consecrated by God and that he was expanded or made “greater”. Ezekiel 28 verse 13 has lucifer covered in 9 of the 12 stones(representing the 12 tribes) the levite priests were required to wear on their breast plates (reference Exodus 28:17-20)

    tamborine and Pipes artistically designed as part of the creature that is Lucifer not carried around but physically in him, apart of his physical person, leads me to belive he was created to make music for the Lord. being Anointed in an expanded sense and covered by the stones insenuates leadership role.

    Ezekiel 28 verse 14 says he was the cherub that “covereth” Covereth = Hedge or fence in, to screen cover overshadow or protect.

    Psalms 22:3 says God inhabits the praise of his people.

    we can safely say Lucifer was designed as a musical instrument for God and anointed to lead all of the hosts of heaven in worship of God. to create a covering for God to inhabit.

    He failed to do this and was cast out (Jude 6). In Luke 10:18 Jesus said he watched Lucifer, as lightning, fall from heaven. Satan is a very real creation of God. and does not want any one or any thing to replace him.

    If I may add, We as God’s creation have the glorious opportunity and resposnibility to replace this fallen angel to not only worship but to Call all of God’s creation to worship Him.

    Rev 4:11 “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

  • Prescott Johnson

    It is completely speculative to interpret these passages in this way. Firstly, how many times does the title of Lucifer appear in the Bible. The answer is ONCE in the KJV. Now, if we wish to use the term “Morning Star” (which the NIV uses), then we have a problem because on several occasions the New Testament refers to Jesus as the “Morning Star.” Think about it, Lucifer=Morningstar=Jesus.

    If the Isaiah passage is about “Satan,” then I would have to find some evidence elsewhere where Satan is discussed more specifically and clearly that would make this harmonious. And it doesn’t. Satan is shown as a submissive (not rebellious) character in the Job story. Satan plays the role of accuser in Zechariah, not some seething, vile character… he’s playing his part. Peter and Jude indicate that angels who are rebellious are bound and kept in darkness. If Satan is still running around doing his thing, it is because his thing is not rebellion, otherwise, he’d be bound and gagged. Satan is just doing what God created him to do. There is a story in Kings, I think, where a prophet has a vision of heaven and God asks how he may entice the king of Israel to battle so that God could kill him. A spirit approaches and says “let me put a lying word in the king’s prophets, so that he will listen to them and go out.” God said “Go!” I’m not saying this is Satan. I’m saying that spirits/angels/demons are not really understood. In this story, we would typically say Satan deceived the prophets, or a demon influenced them. The story indicates that regardless of who it was that put the lie in the mouth of the prophets did so NOT because God knew they would, nor that God merely permitted it. God initiated this.

  • Jared Holloway

    I actually got into this discussion the other day…

    First, Lucifer – as a name, is the Latin translation given by St. Jerome to Isaiah’s obvious reference to the King of Babylon who was historically recognized wit hthe “Day Star” or Venus. In fact, the King of Babylon was often considered the offspring of the Sun, and since Venus also shown during the day, etc… anyways. Secondly, Babylonian and Persian kings were known for their extravagance in everything, especially music and parties. Hence, again the references to music and extravagance. Now, believe me, as a believer in the Christian faith, I recognize evil, and even the “devil” as real, but, I ask that people dig deeper and realize most terms we have, i.e Lucifer, are more modern conventions – I seriosuly doubt God named an angel Lucifer… in a language that didn’t quite exist yet. Also, even the term satan is grossly misjudged in the O.T. for satan usually represents an angel… i,e. a spy for God to discover the people’s wickedness and report back to God… also as a tester.. i.e. with Job. Faith is important… and ideology can mesh well with faith, but history and accurate context are equally important when researching and studying the Scriptures. Lastly, I challenge the person who cannot even spell Islam right, and ask him how many times he has read an Explaination of the Hoyl Qu’ran? probably never :) God Bless!

    Saepe Nihli Cogitamus, JAred

  • James

    I never seen the relevance with the scriptures in Ezekiel 28 refering to Satan as the worship leader in heaven. I see alot of room for assumptions, perceptions, and speculations but no revelation. I came from a background that use to teach the samething but couldnt show real evidence other than those two scriptures mentioned by the above commentators. I think it is safe to assume that other angels have harps, tambourines, electric bass (lol kidding) or whatever God made for them to praise Him with. Why is it that we see a scripture and it has one instrument in there and next thing you know he is a worship leader that led billions of angels in worship he was second in command to God and add whatever else in there that you feel necessary. I guess this is something that I would have to seek the Lord about in prayer. Also maybe it isnt ment for us to know right now until later. There are a bunch of holes in the bible where you have no choice but to get on our knees and receive revelation from Him.

    • Laura

      Amen James!

  • soneye

    I don’t think all of this is necessary. whether satan was lucifer or not is now not so important. the thing is to believe that he is here in this world roaming and trying to destroy us by preventing us from going to heaven. we should just concentrate on worshipping christ and obeying the commandments of God so we will live rightly on earth. Also.i would recommend that we be careful what we say. it is possible for us to say something contradictory to what is written in the Bible coz we did not understand or study the Bible well b4 talking bout it and that is a sin. we shouldn’t change anything that’s written in the Bible. we don’t have to worry bout the devil. After all,we have The Holy Spirit. He is everything. God bless u all.

    • Ruth Watson

      Thankyou so much for advising that we be careful lest we say something contradictory to what is written in the Bible.As a born again Christian, i believed that lucifer/satan,was in charge of leading worship,and that he was full of musical instruments.I had some jws in my home last week and thought i was correct in telling them these things.They are returning next week and i said i would research exactly where this was written in the word.I have now learned that my zeal without knowledge is unwise.Thankyou again .Ruth

    • micah

      i have to agree with you its not crucial to ones salvation and if you are someone like me and you seek for the deeper truths in the word its suppose to be rightly divided and answers its self with other scriptures and if you get a revelation from god on this its between you and god unless otherwise stated by god or it could become a stumbling block for others and we all know what the bible says about that (paraphrasing here) if your hand causes a brother to stumble cut it off if your eye pluck it out besides you will get the answer and anyother answer you have been asking from god not to long from now because of being raptured when we die we will become one with god and it says when that happens all things will be made known jesus walked on water thru walls and we are going to be just like him we will know him as he truly is ,and to know him as he truly is we would have to be like him we are going to be siting beside the throne of god judging angels i know the bible says that much if we judge angels we have to be pretty far up the chain

    • val

      They have changed many things of the first written word of God………….Don’t be so gullible as to think Yashua and the church Jesus are the same…………..Read what Paul wrote and then understand we are ALL still under the law of the most high………..Understand who the TEN Virgins are!!!! Remember they ALL fall asleep!!

  • Robin

    Hummmm, well, Satan has a perversion for every good thing God created, sex, music, etc. I especially think about how music has such a huge impact on our culture particularly beginning with our children, I think is is relevant to acknowlege certain attributes that Satan had and still has but now uses to pervert what God had originally intended it for….in explaining to my children that many forms of music are designed to capture our fleshly desires and lead us away from our personal relationship with God, it seems to me that Satan has a monopoly on every age group and culture thru music – very clever and successful means of leading many astry with the envy of rockstars with their life of overindulgence and idol worship of the rockstars I am still leaning that Satan has a position of worship in Heaven and when he fell he took that gift from God and is still using it today to lead many away from the true music that brings us closer to our Lord. Just my view and some of you are rather harsh in your opionions, this is a place to share and discuss, not attack and cause stumbling blocks….

  • Jimbo

    Those criticizing Satan’s place in the OT have no knowledge of the history of the church and have obviously never spoken to an Orthodox Rabbi or studied what the Jews have always understood about Lucifer. They have known for centuries it was the devil being written about in Ezekiel 28. Do a Hebrew word study and a historical study on the difference between the word ruler and King in Ez 28. There are some foolish people on here that need to check their secular sources and find some correct ones before commenting. If the Jews did not understand or know of who Satan was, then one of their main points of refutting the death and resurection of Christ would be to ask “why do we need saving from mythological creatures?” This has never been an argument presented because practicing Jews know (better than most practicing Christians) that Satan is real and he is evil incarnate. Also, remember how many times that Paul (a very well studied rabbi himself before Christ appeared to him) spoke many times of Satan. And no matter what his role in Heaven or Earth was before his fall, he was great among the Angels and wanted to be God and lost his place because of it. He now wants your allegience and your death too. So while he has no power us who are saved, do not underestimate his power to mislead you.

    2 Tim 4:2-4

  • Seth

    I Believe that Satan was in fact the leader of music in heaven.. not just from my reading of the scripture but also from my own experience in dealing with him myself through life. Now i believe that god will reveal important things that are hidden in his word to help you come to terms with things in life and to better understand our walk with him. If god has led you to believe that Satan was in charge of music that would be a truth reveled to you.. if god hasnt revealed a truth to you maybe your not ready to believe or comprehend that truth because of our inability to comprehend or deal with that truth.

  • Jason Hibdon

    Well, I thought maybe I would find some insight, because I’ve also heard for a long time that Satan was the worship leader of Heaven but never came up with conclusive evidence. However, the passages that you posted from Ezequiel and from Isaiah are the same ones that I had to base off of as well.

    One conclusion that I have come to is that there was worship in the heavens before Creation as seen in Job 38:4-7 and Neh.9:6. If there was worship being made by so many beings it makes sense that there would be someone in charge of it. I mean, God is a God of order and since he has an angel in charge of His army – Michael, it makes for a good argument that someone was in charge of the worship.

    Why Lucifer? Well, reading through revelation you can see that God’s throne is covered in constant praise and worship and it does say in Ezequiel 28 that he was the anointed cherub that covers (by the way, a king of babylon, or anywhere else, could not be a cherub, could not be fallen from Heaven, be in the garden of Eden, or have been placed on the holy mountain of God – for those argueing that the reference is actually to a physical king on earth), and since the scripture also makes reference to the intruments being a part of Lucifer it kind of leads you to the possibility that he was the worship leader of heaven.

    Now what importance does this have if he was or he wasn’t? Well, we can learn alot from that scripture in Ezequiel about tendancies in worship leaders and musical artists in general (myself included) around the world. Usually very talented people with lots of influence and who have a tendancy to pride in believing that they are better than the pastor, or anyone else. Most church divisions are caused by the worship leader. Anyway…just my thoughts.

  • Ukeme Samuel Akpan

    PLEASE WANT TO KNOW Can any one tell me the potion of the bible where i can find mimshack and what it stands for?

    • delbert

      I should correct myself … "mimshach" is from the hebrew not the greek it is the word "Anointed" as used in ezekiel 28:14. KJV.

  • Cara

    i dont think it really matters if he was or wasn’t the worship leader… he uses every worldly thing possible to deceive us anyways. and besides, even if he was the leader of worship in heaven, obviously he’s not anymore and yet worship is still being held and its being done without him ‘leading’ it, if that was his job. i guess i look at this being obvious that music and worship is still continuing and never stopped even when he lost his position, so i assume that he wasnt the only one created for that job if he actually was at all. im not positive of any of this, just wanted to share my opinion.

  • bible believer

    Christ has risen from the cross and is here to save us! Glory to God!!!

  • Christine

    Very interesting viewpoints…. but there are a few things I would like to comment on…

    1. As believers, especially in the times in which we live…we cannot just bury our heads and think that the study of these types of things are worthless…on the contrary…we must be diligent to study to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15)

    2. The reason this is important for beleivers to know and understand is this…. Paul exhorts beleivers to be Soldiers does he not?

    2 Timothy 2:3-4 ESV Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. (4) No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him.

    As a former Soldier in the Military I can share that good battle plans require knowing & studying ones enemy, we MUST know our enemy…so that we will know his tatics, but also we must know him so we DON'T loose focus on the Mission at hand. Our "Mission" if you will as believers and Soldiers of the Most High God is to be vessels used for furthering HIS Kingdom…

    Interesting to note: It was also the Singers and Musicians who went before the LORD's Army before a major battle…. to send a message to the enemy front that we are about to step on their territory and take some ground.

    1. The most concerning thing I saw here is, we are not supposed to be simply bystanders…but as believers we must be proactive in every thought, word and deed concerning the Kingdom of God…..even if that means studying about Lucifer being the Worship leader of Heaven….which by the way, should be extremely important to all of us as Worshipers of our Messiah…Jesus!
  • Kevin

    I agree. I've questioned a lot of things myself recently and have been amazed at the number of people who sit by idle and say "it's not for us to know or question". Anyone who wants to win looks at the total picture and attempts to learn everything there is about not just the enemy but also what we ourselves are capable of doing… what are the rules, what can they do, what can we do, and ,most importantly, are there hidden secrets that are available to us as God's people that we can use to help ourselves and each other. I do believe that we have greater power than anyone could ever imagine… Jesus said 'and greater works than these you'll be able to perform'… I don't believe that this was for the disciples only, but rather we have been told by our leaders that this is not possible. We must learn, study, and prepare ourselves, or we are simply spectators.

  • Nil

    if Lucifer/satan asked for forgiveness would you forgive him?

    • Paulorr

      That was his problem when he was in heaven , he wouldn’t and god gave him enough time to do so but the pride in him wouldn’t not do so , so god was left with no other choice . Afterwards he became known as Satan who is the only one that God will no longer accept forgiveness from , he is the only one which is sentence to hell and Satan knows this , he knows his time on earth is limited . So if your asking whether we should forgive him , its like going against god will which no one should ever do

  • Angela Nabadda

    Surely not me coz he had all the time to ask for forgiveness but didnt utilise it.That is, between the time he committed that grave sin and the time my JESUS was born.On the cross when JESUS said its over, it meant alot but one thing am sure of, it meant that the devil’s grace period was over due and now what is left is for him to just receive his penelty which am sure he knows and that is why he is working so much to see to it that he does not recieve it alone but even GOD’S innocent children.He is on a run like a roaring lion looking for some one to devour which thing he cannot stop coz he has already that.I CANNOT EVEN THING OF SUCH OF FORGIVING THAT’THING’Surely the human race has gone through alot of suffering due to his works.

  • Johnny

    I think your post is dead on. Satan/Lucifer was a created angel that by all we can tell, was made to lead worship to God. I don't understand the part about "By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned" It sounds like he somehow manipulated other angels.
    Today it's so obvious we have a heavy influence to want to gather praise and attention to ourselves, and neglect God. I wonder where this influence comes from? This fallen angel is wandering the Earth looking for anyone he can corrupt.

    • val

      Corruption through mind slavery in the music industry! Listen to the “House of the Rising Sun” by the Animals singing about peadophila of boys………..Satan has the whole world in his hand feeding from the crumbs of his wicked music that worships him and his MK ultra slaves victims of wanting to be like him…………..Also the two horns of Industrial power and space age where he makes fire come down from heaven in the sight of men as he needs sacrifices through explosions. One of these was the Paris air crash in 1974…………..This came down in a place called the grove in France and many people go there to sing and pray and listen to the silence as they collect things dropped from the sky! And what does Yahovah say about going into a “grove”? HE FORBIDS IT!

  • Andy

    If Satan was the worship leader in heaven, I think we can learn from him. Over time, he became selfish and prideful, wanting to be the object of worship himself. He wanted to take the focus off of God and put it on himself. One main point that I get out of this is that as a worship leader myself, I must always avoid selfishness and pride, keeping them out of my life in every way. We see what happened to Satan-he became God's enemy and now leads people AWAY from God. We cannot become like him while we are trying to lead the people of God INTO the presence of God.

  • BroElliott

    How should that part of verse 13 be translated – does it refer to "pipes" and "tambourines" or "timbrels" or "tabrets" as some bible-versions have it, or to "settings" and "sockets" or "engravings", as some other translations have it?

    Some preachers, claiming that Ezekiel 28 is "about Satan", have then further claimed that "Satan produced beautiful music". That is because some bible-versions make it seem that verse 13 refers to "tabrets" and "pipes". ("Tabret" is a kind of a small drum; "pipe" is a flute or similar.)

    But, for instance the 1917 Jewish Publication Society translation interprets the Hebrew text of that verse to refer to "settings" and "sockets" (for gems) – those mentioned in the context, in that same verse:

    Ezekiel 28:13 […] every precious stone was thy covering, the carnelian, the topaz, and the emerald, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the carbuncle, and the smaragd, and gold; the workmanship of thy settings and of thy sockets was in thee, in the day that thou wast created they were prepared. (JPS-1917)

    Note the words "the workmanship of thy settings and of thy sockets". The NASB has "settings and sockets"; the RSV has "settings" and "engravings", the HCSB has "mountings and settings"; several other translations have similar wordings. And, that is what they obviously were: Not music instruments, but sockets for the gems mentioned in the first part of that verse.

    This is what the Online Bible's Hebrew-English lexicon has on the Hebrew word neqeb (which some have rendered as "pipes" in that verse):

    A bezel (for a gem) 1) groove, socket, hole, cavity, settings 1a) technical term relating to jeweller's work

    Even Strong's lexicon says the same:

    A bezel (for a gem)

    Both lexicons add a note that the makers of the KJ version rendered neqeb as "pipe".

    But, some might ask, "What about the word toph in the Hebrew text of that verse – does it not mean 'a drum'?" Well, toph certainly could refer to a small drum, but then, there is the question, was it really toph that Ezekiel wrote? The point here is that ancient Hebrew was written with consonants only; the added phonetic signs to mark vowels were produced much later, around 1000 CE, and those who did that did not always get it right. In the present-day Hebrew text, the word in question is written with the consonants thav-pe-yod-kaph, but it is not clear what the phonetic signs for vowels should have been. Many translators, including those who produced the above-quoted 1917 Jewish Publication Society version, have felt that the word (consonants) in question must have referred to "settings" or similar.

    All in all, it is obvious that the last part of Ezekiel 28:13 refers to flashy gems and other decorations that were used or displayed when that man was "made" – crowned as – the king of the trading city of Tyre.

    A note: The LXX (the Greek Septuagint version) has a somewhat different wording. Here is Brenton's translation of the last part of verse 13 in the LXX:

    Ezekiel 28:13 […] thou hast bound upon thee every precious stone, the sardius, and topaz, and emerald, and carbuncle, and sapphire, and jasper, and silver, and gold, and ligure, and agate, and amethyst, and chrysolite, and beryl, and onyx: and thou hast filled thy treasures and thy stores in thee with gold. (LXXE)

    ("Treasures" and "stores" – the Greek text of the Septuagint has θησαυρους and αποθηκας.)

    • val

      I would certainly think this to be similar to medals that great generals wear on their lapels…………….Satan was obviously very important to the running of the heavenly courts as in Job he is still going in to question Yahovah about the “Hedge” that protects Job and all his kingdom…………….The law of God was then put to the test and his servant suffered unbelievable cruelty.>>>>>>>>So I would think he was decorated with much power as to still be able to question the court……….All decorated so everyone knew he had the right to an answer………..Even God the most high had to watch what Satan did to JOB and all his family and servants and animals as the power of the wind through Satan’s pipes and instruments took over. Some very scary business.

  • Faux finisher

    The Hebrew word for "morning star" is from הָלַל (H1984) (in the sense of brightness). So it is to be understood that whoever the "morning star" is, that "being" was cast out of heaven. Humans cannot be cast out of heaven. The Tenach is filled with prophecies. Therefore, just because at that time, satan had not been cast down, it doesn't mean that Isaiah wasn't talking about him – prophetically speaking. Yeshua said, "I saw satan fall from heaven like lightening". Therefore, it did happen and in Revelation 12, you see where it mentions it again and that 1/3 of the angels fell with satan and have been confined to the skies of earth, having great wrath because he knows his time is short. If he will never be punished and tormented forever, then what "time" is the devil worried about?

    • ABC

      THe KJV version clearly say Lucifer

  • Vicky

    Is Mimshach annointing from God or Satan, people operating under this annointing are they influenced by satan or God. Is it a deceptive annointing.

  • Vicky

    Is Mimshach annointing from God or Satan, people operating under this annointing are they influenced by satan or God.

  • Ron

    Well I would say just the fact that music has evolved into this ungodly force that draws human thought away from Godly principals is proof enough that not only was he there in heaven but he is the worship leader (pagan) of this world, his realm.


    yea after the second coming LUCIFER is the king all over the world, he is the BADCHRIST . He controll everything, no one cant nothing. He is a dirty devil. He do so many stupid thing at that time, .

  • ntombi

    Everybody should be respected. Remember satan was the most trusted and the bible is not elaborating on and how long was the trust broken. Lucifer will just make sure that no one entrrs the heaven

  • ntombi

    What if lucifer want to repend? Where must he go? Please help him. He really want to repend. Rather than Criticizing him, please begin to build him by encouraging him to confess

  • Kevo

    Ntombi- Lucifer can’t repent because he sinned out of time. Thus making his sin enternal. We in the other hand are In time. So we have a chance to repent and get right with God. That’s why God created time so that his beloved children can repent. Very useful by the way. Thanks!

    • Matt Heerema

      Do we have scripture about his inability to repent, or the sin as having been outside of time?

      • Aaron Nelson

        there is no such verse. Satan’s inability to repent comes from his heart being hardened by pride and conceit (Isaiah 14:!3).

        Here is what I think, based on my own studies: God has given Lucifer many opportunities to repent. In fact we can see that even during Job’s time Lucifer was still able to access the throne room of God (Job 1:6), of which he was once a Guardian (Ezekiel 28:14). A Covering Angel is a Cherubim class angel, also called “The Burning Ones” because they supposedly hold a fiery sword or something. Cherubim are also the beings God placed to guard the gates of Eden after he expelled Adam and Eve. So the covering angels are the ones who guard the Throne of God in Heaven by literally covering it with their wings, as is depicted in the Ark of the Covenant. The “anoited cherub who covers” describes Lucifer has holding a position of leadership (he has an anointing on him). But Lucifer doesn’t want to repent, he wants control of the universe and every soul in it. He has set his heart to Be Above God. This is his Ultimate Sin, the unpardonable.

        As a side thought, in some versions the verse about the musical instruments is translated as settings and sockets. In doing some research on that I came across a footnote that actually says ‘translators are undecided”, whatever that means. There must have been some musical connection, because in the beginning of Isaiah 14:11 it talks about Lucifer having harps. As of yet, I have found no place that says he was a worship leader or even made out of musical instruments as I have also heard.

        Does it not say throughout the Bible that God wants no one to perish, that all should have eternal life? Would this also include Lucifer, one of God’s created being? Why would God give everyone a chance to repent but Lucifer. According to my Bible, that is not God’s way. It must be that Lucifer was given the chance to repent and did not, or he still, to the bitter end, has a chance to repent.

        Hope this helps, God Bless Ya’ll.

      • Martin Britt

        God would not be faithful to his promise to judge without partiality if either of those things were true about Satan? The angels had their time of choosing just as we do today. Some chose God just as we do today. Some chose to rebel just as we do today. Ezekiel 28:15 says he was perfect until iniquity was found in him. Iniquity is wickedness but unlike simple sin, it implies the one who commits it refuses to admit their guilt and repent. Thus the Hebrew word itself here lets us know Satan had a chance to repent but refused to do so. God isn’t willing that any should perish, including angels. But when Satan refused, his heart hardened, and his time passed, just as it will for any human who does the same.

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  • D B

    Music is awesome. Thats why this is very believable. Son of a bi%ch! The devil sucks.

  • ric

    Why did you capitalized “Day Star”, it is not in the NIV and it says morning star?

    • Matt Heerema

      I believe I was using the ESV translation there.